Firebrian

I was looking to reinstall the factory shifter on my '99 SS Camaro. The original owner installed a Hurst short throw shifter right after buying the car. He liked the look of the Hurst and was more into performance. The extra noise that came from that wasn't a concern to him. My intention now is to quiet down the extra noise coming through the after-market shifter. Just to be sure that all the noise I hear is just gear rollover noise or shifter induced I took the car to a transmission shop that has done a lot of GM/Tremec work including Vettes and Callaways. In fact the Callaway shop is located within 5 miles of me. The owner of the trans shop test drove the car and said he heard nothing that he felt were bearings or gears (ie it was probably all shifter induced). He agreed that changing the shifter would be a logical 1st step to reduce the noise. With only 15K non-tracked miles on the car one wouldn't expect any major problems in the transmission/clutch. No shifting issues whatsoever....just the extraneous noise. Fresh Dex 3 trans fluid last year didn't change the noise one bit.

The below procedure at LS1.com came in handy. It's only later on they mention there are 2 extra bolts on each side under the dash that need to come out too. That's where the console pivots from the front. And in pulling it out be careful of a wiring harness just under the cigarette lighter that could cause undue tension if not pushed to the side. I think mine was out of the factory retainer allowing to move with the console.

When it came time to remove the inner #6 shifter boot it wouldn't budge a bit. Are these things normally heavily epoxied or glued down? I guess if your goal is to keep noise, fumes, and heat out of the cabin, then the world's tightest seal couldn't hurt....except in getting the boot off. I can't get even a tiny edge of that rubber to peel up at any corner. I didn't intend to have to hack this thing out since that will scratch the heck out of the tunnel area and leave me a boot that probably won't seal like it should, defeating the whole purpose of improving the silencing. From what I've read these #6 boots are discontinued from GM.

The other thing I wanted to be sure of was that the shifter cup isolator bushing that sits inside the shifter rail is still in good sound-isolating condition. I tried to pick up one from my local Chevy dealer just to have on hand. They say the part is no longer supported by GM. The local dealer did provide me with a list of some dealers around the country who have the part in stock. The kicker is you have to order the expensive metal housing that the bushing sits in, raising the price of the part(s) from $10 to $80. Since Tremec epoxied those bushings in place, GM also sold them that way. Several shops on-line list the individual nylon/plastic bushing for $6-$15. I'm not sure those would necessarily fit. But one source I read said that the T4, T5, and T56 all used the same bushing. And that means Ford dealers might carry these? Anyone know a sure-fire source to ensure the right bushing and simplest way to find them?

Another thing I was thinking of was putting a thin rubber or paper gasket under the 2 Hurst shifter handle bolts to reduce the noise/vibration transfer. It's a metal to metal fit otherwise. At least the factory shifter has a rubber isolator in the center of it. The Hurst shifter came with 1/2" bolts and loose flat washer + spring lock washer. Even when tightened up you'd think that washer over washer set up could induce more vibrations. The stock shifter uses a simple, factory style cap bolt (ie one piece washer-bolt) where nothing can rattle. Maybe just improving the sound isolating on the Hurst stick could solve a lot of the vibrations? Or will a gasket cause other problems?

Any advice or comments would be appreciated. Anything I can find that covers all the bases of a shifter swap I'll link to here to assist others down the line in not having to dig it all up. Thanks.

Firebrian

http://www.ls1.com/forums/f65/how-ch...hifter-159249/

http://www.ls1howto.com/index.php?article=12

99Bluz28

iTrader: (35)

Here's 2 ways I've solved shifter noise issues, First once you removed the rubber boot you'll want a piece of 3/8" closed cell foam rubber like in this photo and pace it over the top of the shifter where it sits on the base of the shifter, then reinstall your rubber boot. This cuts down on a noticeable amount of noise that comes up around the shifter.



This was when I has a Pro5.0 shifter, when it wore out I replaced it with a Hurst Billet Plus shifter.
The second thing I did was install a heavy shift ****. I used a TWM Type R shift **** which weighs 15.52 oz, it's made from stainless steel. The heavy weight from the shift **** seemed to really dampen any shifter noise, and make the shifts throws take less effort.
The down side is that the shift ***** are pricy.

Firebrian

99Bluz28,

Thanks for that input. I have something just like that sound deadening material in my garage that I bought for a '68 GTX about 18 years ago. It was designed for sound-quieting on nuclear submarines. Should work fine here. I also have some sound matting similar to carpeting that I can put over the inner boot as long as it doesn't contact the console. Too much insulation can't hurt can it? The shaft opening on the boot is another spot that can be made tighter as well.

Still have to get that inner boot off. And looking at your photo, there's no signs of epoxy on it except for possibly around the screw holes. The seating surface on the tunnel shows no signs of having scraped off gasketing material in the past. I don't think the factory glued these boots down.

Shifter ball is a good idea too. Mine is the clunky factory, leather-wrapped ball type. Looks like a gray mini-baseball with seams. From what I've read these sound isolate better than the plastic Hurst ***** that can rattle like crazy due to hollow or loose centers. When I grab my shifter **** the noise of the vibration changes. In fact when I loosen my **** just a tad, the noise lessens a bit. Your heavier ball is putting a bit more pressure into the shifter bushing seat which must help in your set up. The extra **** weight to help with shifts makes sense.

99Bluz28

iTrader: (35)

No epoxy at all, arround the screw holes I put liquid electrical tape. I used it to help lock the screws in place.
you'll probably need to a good sized flat tip screwdriver to pry around under the edge of the boot to loosen it up.

Firebrian

Looking like at some point will have to try and dig that boot off. The last guy in there must have used some killer stuff.

In thinking about it more, is it possible that heat from the transmission case helped to "fuse" the boot to the tunnel. The exterior of the boot ridges did show some dark bands as if some heating/aging did occur. I sort of expected to see an even colored boot looking essentially new. Hawksthirdgenparts apparently carries nice repro's of the #6 boot, shifter isolator cups and also factory outer leather boots and shift *****.

Appreciate the help. I just might try some tricks with that Hurst shifter shaft and some sound deadening material first....before digging the boot out. Then just lay the console back down in place and test drive it. I do like the way the Hurst shifts. And if it can be silenced, I'd leave it in.

The first 6 minutes of the below video shows console and shifter removal. Of the sites I've reviewed the 2 lower boots always slipped off fairly easy. That's not to say you won't find double sided taped or epoxy being used on after-market shifter installs. Jeeps and Miatas seem to have a lot of problem with the 2 lower boots being torn from heat or age. If you're smelling foul orders or drafts in the console area those boots are a likely source. Some of the company factory shifters come with sound deadening pads and other materials placed over the shift mechanism. If the 2 inner boots make contact with each other they can make noise. Talcum powder is sometimes applied to minimize friction between them. Another point is that if the after-market shifter stops come loose, they might be a possible noise source.

guppymech

iTrader: (7)

If you still have it the factory shifter stick with the rubber bushing at the bottom will bolt onto the factory or OEM hurst base. The bushing on this stick eliminates almost all noises at the expense of somewhat less precise shiter feel.

Firebrian

I do have the orig factory shifter. I was going to install that last night when I ran into the #6 inner boot having been epoxied or glued down. And since I don't have a spare in hand yet I'd figure for now I'd just try to silence the Hurst short throw shifter that was installed back in 1999. Unfortunately, this is not the Hurst OEM you could order as an upgrade which was quite similar to the stock one. My Hurst is a nearly straight 8" flat chrome stick....not the sound isolated stick with a "wiggle" in it. It must have been an upgrade to the GM/OEM version. The instructions with this shifter are labeled "GM Performance Parts - GM service parts operations - Hurst Shifter part no. 12363903." A search on line or at Hurst shows nothing by that part number. It must be superceded. I wish I could just slide the stock GM upper shifter on the Hurst turret shaft. Unfortunately, the shaft is much wider and thicker where the stock shifter shaft can't slide over it. The only option would be to mount it sideways, not using the additional strength and stability of the channel as intended. And that probably wouldn't work either with the after-market shifter shaft bolts having much different thread sizes.

For now, I sound-deadened the chrome stick shaft be placing a 1/16" foam insulating gasket between the metal mating surfaces. I used nylon washers on the bolts....hence no metal to metal contact. I also placed a 3/8" piece of carpet-like sound insulating blanket over the entire exposed tunnel area as suggested above by 99Bluz28. The shifter shaft was wrapped in insulating material as well.

After a test drive with the windows up, I'd say the noise was reduced by 50%. Before, things would get noisy over 2500-3000 rpm. That seems to have moved up to 3500-4000. It's harder to hear the neutral gear rollover noise in idle as well. If I gradually raise rpm I really don't hear anything up to 4000 rpm. An improvement, though not a cure. It's possible the '99 Hurst upgrade never came with the lower boot to surround the shifter turret. It wasn't listed on the parts inventory and the factory lower boot was in the leftover factory parts I received. One rubber boot missing would create additional noise.

When I get all the needed parts then I can consider trying to get the boot off as it will probably tear. Lesson learned - remember which side of the shifter the bolts face as it could interfere with reaching the reverse gear. That extra 1/8th inch or so of clearance could make a big difference.

These guys offer a noise reduction gasket set for both the shifter handle and the turret/shifter base. A number of threads suggest using something other DEX III to reduce noise (Syncromesh, Mobil 1 synthetic ATF, Amsoil synthetic, Redline D4 ATF, etc.). My '99 has the paper blocking rings which is not compatible with some of them.

http://www.americanmuscle.com/shifte...le-gasket.html

The Hurst shifters in the new Challengers and Camaro's have similar rattles that are quite common. Corvette forums have fixes as well. Lots of good ideas common to all shifters (superglue on the shifter ball metal thread inserts or teflon tape on the shifter threads, use a plastic threaded insert inside the shifter ****, silicon shot into the shifter handle if there are gaps (esp. a pistol grip style), change the shifter ball to a more sound-deadened one, grease inside the shifter ball or teflon tape the threads, use blue thread locker on any bolt threads, sticky dynomat over the shifter tunnel, under the turret cover, and around the shifter parts, lithium grease applied to the shifter pivot ball, kroil sprayed on the turret shaft so that it can dribble into the pivot ball cup, tennis ball or drilled out hockey puck placed on the shifter shaft to change the resonant frequency, etc.). A couple of people cited that their "shifter" noise ended up being the parking brake rattling. Here's stuff they have done to quiet them down. Anywhere there is metal to metal, it can be improved with not a whole lot of loss in the feel & accuracy of a short throw shifter. The shifter is like a sound megaphone coming from your transmission with the shifter ball/handle as the final noise amplifier. Google "noisy hurst shifter."

http://www.challengertalk.com/forums...p/t-34618.html

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-z...ter-noise.html

https://www.google.com/search?q=nois...ml%3B900%3B600