Invented a new nitrogen push nitrous system
01-20-2004, 01:05 AM
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Invented a new nitrogen push nitrous system Please crituque this and give me any ideas pros/cons...
Alright, ive decided im going to post a nitrous kit i invented and tested that works better than anything on the market and uses any manufacturors kit and makes them better. I figure you all help me a lot, ill give you something im in the middle of patent pending....
But if any of you think about trying this on your 100-400 nitrous setups (especially the larger ones) you can honestly expect a several tenth gain on your 1/4 mile times (Mainly after the 1st pass on a bottle)
If anyone uses this or decides to go with it. Please just give credit where it is due (inventor) as we call this a "LT Motorsport Nitrous Push Kit". Im not selling these yet or trying to sell anyone on here anything. But im inviting you to test it or give me ideas on it.
My nitrous bottle stays @ 1100 psi permanentely. My nitrous stays at full horsepower until the last pound in the bottle. Nitrogen fill costs almost nothing (I pay a couple bucks or so to fill my 20lb bottle and refill the little bottle with it)
1st: I take a nitrous bottle, drill a hole in the side/top of it about 2" below the nek. Tig weld 3an/4an nipple into it. Followed by pressure testing locally (cost almost nothing).
2nd: A 2-1/2 lb to a 5lb small nitrogen bottle or c02 etc bottle is installed next to your 10lb nitrous bottle. The small bottle is filled to 2000-3000psi with nitrougen (thats standard, nothing to worry about)
3rd: I run a 6" braided line from nitrogen bottle to a regulator (paid $20 for mine), then another 6" line to the nipple on the nitrous bottle.
4: Also i have a little ball valve fitting on the nipple of the n20 bottle to shut it off when disconnecting nitrogen bottle
5: Usually a full 10lb n20 bottle is at 900-1000 psi on a fairly cold day like now. I open the nitrogen bottle and set the regulator to 1100 psi, then open ball valve. Now my nitrous bottle is instantly @ 1100 psi. Nitrogen and nitrous do not mix because nitrous is in a liquid form in the bottle of the bottle, nitrogen is at the top and does not flow out of the bottle, as the n20 bottle uses a dipstick to the bottom. It will not pick up nitrogen until the bottle reaches approx 1lb..maybe 2 if the bottle is mounted odd.
6: When you make a nitrous run for say 10 seconds. By the end of the run the pressure has bled down from (example) 1100 psi to about 800-900. The 2nd half of the run the motor runs a much richer mixture and loses quite a bit of power. This setup will ensure perfect a/f ratio and maintain power all the way through the run. This doesnt show on a chassis dyno because you only make 3-4 second pulls in high gear...
Also with this setup there is NO wait ever on a bottle heater (which you dont need now). PLUS nitrogen doesnt change pressure due to temperature like nitrous does. When you have 4 lbs in the n20 bottle, you still have a full nitrous hit and do not need to refill the bottle until empty.
Im guessing that on something like my own car that is going on a 300-400 shot....i will gain approx 3-4 mph and a couple tenths in the 1/4 from this setup over a bottle heater setup. Plus im going to run a 20lb nitrous bottle with a 5 lb nitrogen bottle and i can run A LONG time before refilling, compared to 1-2 runs per bottle before...
We tested a completely empty nitrous bottle and how much nitrogen it took to bring it up to 1100 psi. It took less than a 2-1/2lb nitrogen bottle...so the nitrogen bottle can keep up with the entire 10 lb nitrous bottle.
This whole kit you can build yourself for $100 bucks or so at the most....
FEEDBACK PLEASE!!
Alright, ive decided im going to post a nitrous kit i invented and tested that works better than anything on the market and uses any manufacturors kit and makes them better. I figure you all help me a lot, ill give you something im in the middle of patent pending....
But if any of you think about trying this on your 100-400 nitrous setups (especially the larger ones) you can honestly expect a several tenth gain on your 1/4 mile times (Mainly after the 1st pass on a bottle)
If anyone uses this or decides to go with it. Please just give credit where it is due (inventor) as we call this a "LT Motorsport Nitrous Push Kit". Im not selling these yet or trying to sell anyone on here anything. But im inviting you to test it or give me ideas on it.
My nitrous bottle stays @ 1100 psi permanentely. My nitrous stays at full horsepower until the last pound in the bottle. Nitrogen fill costs almost nothing (I pay a couple bucks or so to fill my 20lb bottle and refill the little bottle with it)
1st: I take a nitrous bottle, drill a hole in the side/top of it about 2" below the nek. Tig weld 3an/4an nipple into it. Followed by pressure testing locally (cost almost nothing).
2nd: A 2-1/2 lb to a 5lb small nitrogen bottle or c02 etc bottle is installed next to your 10lb nitrous bottle. The small bottle is filled to 2000-3000psi with nitrougen (thats standard, nothing to worry about)
3rd: I run a 6" braided line from nitrogen bottle to a regulator (paid $20 for mine), then another 6" line to the nipple on the nitrous bottle.
4: Also i have a little ball valve fitting on the nipple of the n20 bottle to shut it off when disconnecting nitrogen bottle
5: Usually a full 10lb n20 bottle is at 900-1000 psi on a fairly cold day like now. I open the nitrogen bottle and set the regulator to 1100 psi, then open ball valve. Now my nitrous bottle is instantly @ 1100 psi. Nitrogen and nitrous do not mix because nitrous is in a liquid form in the bottle of the bottle, nitrogen is at the top and does not flow out of the bottle, as the n20 bottle uses a dipstick to the bottom. It will not pick up nitrogen until the bottle reaches approx 1lb..maybe 2 if the bottle is mounted odd.
6: When you make a nitrous run for say 10 seconds. By the end of the run the pressure has bled down from (example) 1100 psi to about 800-900. The 2nd half of the run the motor runs a much richer mixture and loses quite a bit of power. This setup will ensure perfect a/f ratio and maintain power all the way through the run. This doesnt show on a chassis dyno because you only make 3-4 second pulls in high gear...
Also with this setup there is NO wait ever on a bottle heater (which you dont need now). PLUS nitrogen doesnt change pressure due to temperature like nitrous does. When you have 4 lbs in the n20 bottle, you still have a full nitrous hit and do not need to refill the bottle until empty.
Im guessing that on something like my own car that is going on a 300-400 shot....i will gain approx 3-4 mph and a couple tenths in the 1/4 from this setup over a bottle heater setup. Plus im going to run a 20lb nitrous bottle with a 5 lb nitrogen bottle and i can run A LONG time before refilling, compared to 1-2 runs per bottle before...
We tested a completely empty nitrous bottle and how much nitrogen it took to bring it up to 1100 psi. It took less than a 2-1/2lb nitrogen bottle...so the nitrogen bottle can keep up with the entire 10 lb nitrous bottle.
This whole kit you can build yourself for $100 bucks or so at the most....
FEEDBACK PLEASE!!
01-20-2004, 01:38 AM
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Your a gotdang genious!!!!!!!
Lol...
Ive been running that setup for over a year with excellent results.
My newest setup is much more advanced...it goes like this
NOS 15 lb bottle with super high flow valve (already has two extra ports for N2 in, no drilling required)
adjustable pressure switch mounted in open Nos bottle port (600-1500 psi adjustable)
3000 psi solinoid between nitrogen bottle and nitrous bottle
Carbon fiber nitrogen bottle 15 lb size
switch up front to arm system
this is how it operates:
Arm the system...power goes through the pressure switch which is in the closed position...which in turn opens the solinoid...pressure begins to rise rapidly until it gets to the pressure switch setting ( i have it set to 1150 psi). At 1150 psi the pressure switch opens the contacts...solinoid closes. pressure in the nitrous bottle is now 1150.
The pressure switch is so sensitive...if the pressure drops even 5 psi it will open the noid again to maintain exactly 1150psi. If its all set right the pressure switch and noid will "flutter" constantly during the run to maintain pressure within 15-20 psi.
The reason I went with this system is because using a regulator alone is a bit of a pita. Yes...much better than a bottle heater...but still a pita. Sometimes the pressure will creep up a bit if you leave the nitrogen on for long periods. Also I was always fiddling with the regulator.
Anyways..I call this my auto bottle pressure nitrogen system
And yes it is worth an extra 1-2 mph at the track..and maybe .1 tenth when i run a 200 shot. So on your larger shot it would be very valuable.
I wasnt able to use this the other night though at the track. My new pressure noid could not handle the high pressure (overheated) I have a new 3000 psi noid being delivered weds. Ill get a video of it in action. Its really a neat system. Arm it...and it comes alive with a mind of its own. And you should see other racers on the street and at the track just stare at it trying to figure out WTF its for.
Lol...
Ive been running that setup for over a year with excellent results. My newest setup is much more advanced...it goes like this
NOS 15 lb bottle with super high flow valve (already has two extra ports for N2 in, no drilling required)
adjustable pressure switch mounted in open Nos bottle port (600-1500 psi adjustable)
3000 psi solinoid between nitrogen bottle and nitrous bottle
Carbon fiber nitrogen bottle 15 lb size
switch up front to arm system
this is how it operates:
Arm the system...power goes through the pressure switch which is in the closed position...which in turn opens the solinoid...pressure begins to rise rapidly until it gets to the pressure switch setting ( i have it set to 1150 psi). At 1150 psi the pressure switch opens the contacts...solinoid closes. pressure in the nitrous bottle is now 1150.
The pressure switch is so sensitive...if the pressure drops even 5 psi it will open the noid again to maintain exactly 1150psi. If its all set right the pressure switch and noid will "flutter" constantly during the run to maintain pressure within 15-20 psi.
The reason I went with this system is because using a regulator alone is a bit of a pita. Yes...much better than a bottle heater...but still a pita. Sometimes the pressure will creep up a bit if you leave the nitrogen on for long periods. Also I was always fiddling with the regulator.
Anyways..I call this my auto bottle pressure nitrogen system
And yes it is worth an extra 1-2 mph at the track..and maybe .1 tenth when i run a 200 shot. So on your larger shot it would be very valuable.
I wasnt able to use this the other night though at the track. My new pressure noid could not handle the high pressure (overheated) I have a new 3000 psi noid being delivered weds. Ill get a video of it in action. Its really a neat system. Arm it...and it comes alive with a mind of its own. And you should see other racers on the street and at the track just stare at it trying to figure out WTF its for.
01-20-2004, 02:06 AM
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383LQ4, yea ive been running it as well for quite a long time, worked well on my mustang long ago before i graduated up into a chevy 
lol
Glad to see we didnt steal each others idea on this one...seems we both figured it out in our own way...
I think my much simplier kit will definatly work better (just an opinion, not knocking your setup at all).
Heres one problem you might want to try and change to improve on your setup if you understand where im coming from.
Going through a port on the bottle valve doenst work properly. It may appear to work right, but after testing it both ways, going with a nipple on the bottle that doesnt feed through the dip tube where the nitrous is going the opposite direction will make much more power...
On your highflow valve with the ports in it, when you inject nitrogen into the bottle at that port, it has to enter the bottle through the diptube, plus when your on nitrous your going to be sucking nitrogen as well as nitrous...this is going to dillute your nitrous going to the motor....and actually take some oxygen out of the engine and hurt horsepower...
I personally would never use a solenoid to control pressure. If the solenoid ever sticks you will blow the pop off valve on the nitrous bottle. Plus i dont think its going to react perfectly....also if the pressure in the bottle goes up from heat then your going to have to much pressure...The solenoid is wiring, where as the regulator is a quick and easy no adjusting or wiring...
lolGlad to see we didnt steal each others idea on this one...seems we both figured it out in our own way...
I think my much simplier kit will definatly work better (just an opinion, not knocking your setup at all).
Heres one problem you might want to try and change to improve on your setup if you understand where im coming from.
Going through a port on the bottle valve doenst work properly. It may appear to work right, but after testing it both ways, going with a nipple on the bottle that doesnt feed through the dip tube where the nitrous is going the opposite direction will make much more power...
On your highflow valve with the ports in it, when you inject nitrogen into the bottle at that port, it has to enter the bottle through the diptube, plus when your on nitrous your going to be sucking nitrogen as well as nitrous...this is going to dillute your nitrous going to the motor....and actually take some oxygen out of the engine and hurt horsepower...
I personally would never use a solenoid to control pressure. If the solenoid ever sticks you will blow the pop off valve on the nitrous bottle. Plus i dont think its going to react perfectly....also if the pressure in the bottle goes up from heat then your going to have to much pressure...The solenoid is wiring, where as the regulator is a quick and easy no adjusting or wiring...
Last edited by C4VetteLS1; 01-20-2004 at 02:13 AM.
01-20-2004, 03:01 AM
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Actually on the NOS superhighflow valve there are three ports that go into the neck of the valve to the "top" of the bottle. They are seperated from the dip tube. So its basically pushing on the top...or creating a "head pressure" ontop of the nitrous as the nitrous comes up through the pickup tube.
And as for the noid failing...theres two ways around this to prevent a mishap. One is retain the use of the regulator and use with 3000 lbs in a smaller bottle...say a 10 lb size. You can set the pressure where you want..but it has to be atleast 200-300 psi above your desired nitrous pressure or it wont fill fast enough when the noid opens. That is one problem of just using the regulator alone..the recovery time is too slow once you are spraying...its tough to maintain pressure. So setting it slightly above your desired nitrous bottle pressure shortens the recovery time.
Second way (what Im doing now) Is to use a larger (and in this case lighter, carbon fiber) bottle and only fill it to 2000 psi. The volume and pressure has to be sufficient to maintain the desired pressure through the entire 15 lbs of juice. But not be so great that if there is a noid failure the resulting pressure equalization would be above the burst pressure of the safety valve on the nitrous bottle. In this case It would equalize around 1650 psi. I monitor nitrous bottle pressure up front with an electric nitrous gauge. The sender is mounted to another open port on the superhighflow valve. So it obviously reads pressure at all times..not just when the bottle is open. I do it this way to monitor for just such a failure.
My carbon fiber bottle is about equal to a NOS 15 lb bottle and is filled with 2000 psi of nitrogen. It is able to maintain 1100 psi until the last bit of juice is gone. Of course I never run it out completely though. With this setup there is almost no recovery time...the pressure switch and noid "flutter constantly during a run and stay within the target pressure the whole run.
Anyways..its actually great to hear from another person actually running a nitrogen setup and having success...kick *** man!!!!!!
And as for the noid failing...theres two ways around this to prevent a mishap. One is retain the use of the regulator and use with 3000 lbs in a smaller bottle...say a 10 lb size. You can set the pressure where you want..but it has to be atleast 200-300 psi above your desired nitrous pressure or it wont fill fast enough when the noid opens. That is one problem of just using the regulator alone..the recovery time is too slow once you are spraying...its tough to maintain pressure. So setting it slightly above your desired nitrous bottle pressure shortens the recovery time.
Second way (what Im doing now) Is to use a larger (and in this case lighter, carbon fiber) bottle and only fill it to 2000 psi. The volume and pressure has to be sufficient to maintain the desired pressure through the entire 15 lbs of juice. But not be so great that if there is a noid failure the resulting pressure equalization would be above the burst pressure of the safety valve on the nitrous bottle. In this case It would equalize around 1650 psi. I monitor nitrous bottle pressure up front with an electric nitrous gauge. The sender is mounted to another open port on the superhighflow valve. So it obviously reads pressure at all times..not just when the bottle is open. I do it this way to monitor for just such a failure.
My carbon fiber bottle is about equal to a NOS 15 lb bottle and is filled with 2000 psi of nitrogen. It is able to maintain 1100 psi until the last bit of juice is gone. Of course I never run it out completely though. With this setup there is almost no recovery time...the pressure switch and noid "flutter constantly during a run and stay within the target pressure the whole run.
Anyways..its actually great to hear from another person actually running a nitrogen setup and having success...kick *** man!!!!!!
Last edited by 383LQ4SS; 01-20-2004 at 03:21 AM.
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01-20-2004, 03:09 AM
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Oh yeah...Nitrous Works actually makes a fitting that screws into a standard nitrous botlle neck..and then the valve screws into that. It has a port on it. Its specifically to convert a regiular nitrous bottle to be able to use a nitrogen push without welding. Pretty cheap too.
01-20-2004, 08:41 PM
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experiance mostly. When you think your getting close take it out and weigh it. As always...make sure you have enough juice to get through an entire pass.
And as far as that Nitrous Works part..I saw it in thier catalog. They may not even make it anymore. In most sancioned racing bodies...nitrogen push systems are not legal.
And as far as that Nitrous Works part..I saw it in thier catalog. They may not even make it anymore. In most sancioned racing bodies...nitrogen push systems are not legal.
01-21-2004, 12:59 AM
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Hmmm...From looking at a superhighflow bottle valve, it looks like the ports go into the dip tube...the way the diptube comes into the neck, how doesnt it??? Ill have to look at one in the shop tomorrow...
A good regulator instantly keeps the pressure where it should be, you set it to 1100 psi and it stays, how does it take time to recover or to correct as it happens faster than you can even see it (when watching it on the dyno you cant even see it move off of 1100 psi..)
So i dont see where needing a fluttering solenoid would work or benefit. Plus a fluttering solenoid reminds me of a direct port that gets used alot more that you want and would lead to a failed solenoid...
A good regulator instantly keeps the pressure where it should be, you set it to 1100 psi and it stays, how does it take time to recover or to correct as it happens faster than you can even see it (when watching it on the dyno you cant even see it move off of 1100 psi..)
So i dont see where needing a fluttering solenoid would work or benefit. Plus a fluttering solenoid reminds me of a direct port that gets used alot more that you want and would lead to a failed solenoid...
01-21-2004, 01:02 PM
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C4...its the valve that comes with the 5177 kit. It has three ports total in the neck. Including the nitrous gauge. The nitrous gauge doesnt read whats going through the dip tube...its open to the "top" of the bottle. So are the other two ports. One of course is used for the blow off valve. Check it out..its definately easier than welding the nitrous bottle. And that Valve is a very good valve too!
What kind of regulator are you using? Maybe my regulator just isnt up to snuff. Its fairly dated. Do you have a PN or place to get it? Price?
What kind of regulator are you using? Maybe my regulator just isnt up to snuff. Its fairly dated. Do you have a PN or place to get it? Price?
01-21-2004, 05:33 PM
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Ok im holding a valve from the box nos-16139 It has two ports on it and a blowoff port, i just took the small allen plugs out and i see the big one would work great for that. So ill put a fitting into it....thanks for the idea on that one..saves the trouble of welding on bottles...
Hmm..i just bought the regulator from a welding/gas supply place...so im not exactly sure what brand/type it is...
Hmm..i just bought the regulator from a welding/gas supply place...so im not exactly sure what brand/type it is...
Last edited by C4VetteLS1; 01-21-2004 at 05:39 PM.
01-25-2004, 12:30 PM
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So what if i wanted to hybrid both of these style systems into one. Let me know if this would work:
NOS bottle with high flow valve
Carbon nitrogen bottle
line from nitrogen bottle to regulator (what kind?)
line from regulator into nos bottle valve
Thats all that it would take if i read everything right.
I guess my two questions would be what type of regulator would i need and where can a buy one, and will the nos valve havae a built in check ball?
thanks for the help!
NOS bottle with high flow valve
Carbon nitrogen bottle
line from nitrogen bottle to regulator (what kind?)
line from regulator into nos bottle valve
Thats all that it would take if i read everything right.
I guess my two questions would be what type of regulator would i need and where can a buy one, and will the nos valve havae a built in check ball?
thanks for the help!
